404:  Freefall: A Reckoning for Boeing

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[SPEAKER_00]: Pre-fall, I'm Jason Horton, I'm Rebecca Leib, and this is Ghost Town.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hello everyone.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Today we're talking about free fall reckoning for Bowen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing another recap another recap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to do more of these because they're fun Mix it up a little bit Trying to bring in more of the culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little bit of the moment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know if you like it or not

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be putting a lot of these on our patrons.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So please follow us there because I love to dive in deeper, patreon.com slash ghost town pod.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to see you there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to put up so much fun stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited for it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I want you to join us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I won't plug that anymore.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get down to business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So today on our regular feed, we'll be talking about freefall reckoning for Boeing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now this came out two hours ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: from where I am talking about this is breaking news people this is hot off the Netflix presses for you and you alone discourse we love discourse we love discourse right now is a tough one I'll give you that I wanted to do something that felt like very uh

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[SPEAKER_01]: Again, that was happening right now that people were talking about, so I got really excited about the Boeing documentary, but admittedly admittedly the it's it's dark it's dark people it's a very difficult to process and I still am so apologies if I stumble if I get something wrong if I'm not

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[SPEAKER_01]: as, I don't know, perceptibly sensitive to it because I'm still processing it to make sure that I get this out to you and that we can talk about it maybe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really interested in this subject matter and I really love Rory Kennedy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's the documentary and who made this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: My brother is an aviation professor in Australia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have a long relationship.

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[SPEAKER_01]: with commercial aid deviations specifically because he is in it and is so passionate about it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels close to me also conspiratorially, conspiratorially, conspiratorially.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, that can't be right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, let's just move on.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I also am interested this and the interplay between, you know, late-stage capitalism, big business and how we perceive of systemic corruption and how it damages us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Those things are all, again, fascinating, but also really heartbreaking, and you see it, you know, you have a front row seat to it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It can be very upsetting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That'll be said, a very impactful documentary speaks to much of the culture around business, profiteering, and in governmental issues and governmental process, too, sexy, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So again, what do I know about Boeing?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I know from my family, I know from the news, I know from reading up on it when these things are happening that they discuss in the documentary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Although, they don't discuss all of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We really focus on a couple big events throughout all of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's good for me because it can get overwhelming and the technical part of it can get overwhelming and the emotional part of it can get overwhelming.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So this really does a good job of

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[SPEAKER_01]: focusing up, not to discount other things, other instances, but just to give certain events the substance that they are do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We start with John Barnett, who is a Boeing quality manager.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's giving a testimony on this specific day.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And everyone, the attorneys are shocked at the things that he's saying about Boeing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Boeing whistleblower.

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[SPEAKER_01]: he was scheduled to come in and do his whole testimony that day, but he is tired and they quit early and the next day at 10 a.m. he has not arrived and he will never arrive because the attorney has put through to John's room in the phone just rang.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then somebody he asked somebody

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[SPEAKER_01]: He, he was not there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: His truck was still in the parking lot, though, and the hotel manager saw something even more disturbing inside and calls 911.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of the cold open.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then we get into the credits, which are kind of old school prestige documentary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do we need them for this?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a feature length documentary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't, you know, it's not like a bond movie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't need whatever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, people do people get excited about those credits.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Not for some like this, I don't think.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was just like, oh, it just made it feel like it took me out of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was a little bit superficial, honestly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I will say, though, the credits detail, just a little, you know, quick, quick, little tour into the dangerous things that Boeing's.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Dangerous things that Boeing has mismanaged with their flights over the years, and spoiler alert, there are many, there are many.

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[SPEAKER_01]: they're just headline after headline of shit Boeing fucked up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we need that as a little bit of shorthand a little bit of history to get to the rest of it, but it is it's kind of in this sexy package which feels wrong, you know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We see Sam Mohawk, he's a bun quality investigator, Ron Irving, another quality investigator, both

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[SPEAKER_01]: thought that their destiny was working at Boeing and thought that it was a wonderful company.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We get the set up, the set up that it was wonderful, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was the set up that people were proud to work at Boeing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a badge of honor.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was their destiny.

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[SPEAKER_01]: These engineers explained that back the day, if there was ever a dispute quality department signed off on their work, they settled everything.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't like the king.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They were the go-toes, they were the people that were in charge.

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[SPEAKER_01]: but that atmosphere changed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All these people also explain that the decline of Boeing really started in 2005 with Jim McNerny, their new monster pig CEO.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He was an executive at General Electric and a protege of Jack Welch, a kind of late-stage capitalism monster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the guy that would fire the lowest 10% of the employees every year just to make everyone else watch their fucking asses.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that kind of fun guy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He seems like a really fun conscientious kind man, really a good at sex man, you know, a giving man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And he went all in with Boeing with this Welch way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't fire 10% of the bottom employees, but he was really cutting shit real quick.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He also wanted to do something a little bit flashy, designed a new plane, a 787.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was supposed to cost in his plan, $10 billion, but McDerny, well, he wanted to do it for five, half of what it cost.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's bargain bin this shit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, I'm a new CEO, I'm getting in here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What should I do?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Build a new plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What should I do for pennies?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, he starts to do that, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: They outsource major sections of the plane, Japan, Korea, Italy, Australia, whatever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All these punches are fucking making parts for this fucking new plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they ship those parts to Seattle, Washington, and guess what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's no immediate control over the quality of the parts.

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[SPEAKER_01]: like a toy, the plane parts don't fit together.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The plane is supposed to be snapped together again, like a little toy, even in the best of circumstances in three days.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But there's literally like a measuring stick showcasing a gap between one part that's supposed to be flush with another part of the plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: People are so surried in this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Human beings are supposed to be thousands of feet in the air in this thing that the parts don't snap together because the parts are bad at parting, you know, so then Boeing wants to make a second 787 product line.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, well, figure this out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll make them fit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, let's do a whole product line.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why not?

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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't, we got this problem, but you know what, let's make some more problems.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Boeing started in Seattle and they had never built a plane anywhere else, only Seattle.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Parts in Seattle, things in Seattle, qualified people in Seattle, Seattle unions, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: All that's so fucking amazing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But ignoring was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's make a second Boeing line in South Carolina away from those pesky unions, and away from that quality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that experience and that tried and tried and tested reputation for good product and good business models.

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, let's do it for cheap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean we're 15 minutes into this documentary and of course we all know we're all of this is going but it's so hard to watch you know it's so hard in 2010 the 707 was being built sending experts from Seattle to make the plane in Charleston, South Carolina where they're their whole new warehouse was the big building place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: South the technical term is that the technical term for it I think so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One of these people is John Burnett, so his parents appear in this documentary at this point and it's just incredibly sad.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really tough, because again, we all know where this is going, but it's, we gotta get there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We gotta take the journey, you know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Boeing is sending these experts who have done this work in Seattle for decades, two terals, and two help with whatever

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[SPEAKER_01]: crew is happening there because they emphasize that they are recruiting people right at a college, you know, that are kind of interested, but don't know how to build these giant planes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They just don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They just don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not their fault, but Boeing wants people quickly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They want people to assemble these little toy planes, big toy planes, big billion dollar toy planes, right, that holds human life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And they want them to do it quickly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they're they're a curtain.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're a curtain.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Plains are complicated.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I

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[SPEAKER_01]: do we know how they really work?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do we really know?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do I know?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want me to be building a plane?

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I have a college degree.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have a shitty master's degree.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want me near a plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't mean near plans to build a plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want me near the thought of building a plane because I'm not qualified to do that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So then Bill Seed tells the story he's an engineer who's interwoven throughout the whole documentary about how he walked in into the guy with the sledgehammer going to town on an airplane to put in a thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He was using a sledgehammer to build an airplane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: seats concerned, took a video and he was instructed to get rid of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Not to do anything with it, not to fix it, get rid of the video, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Just normal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's normal that a guy with a sledgehammer is making a plane, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Just pounded away in a plane?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All of this, of course, is just to push to meet a schedule.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A schedule, a schedule is king no matter what.

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[SPEAKER_01]: People would see holes in the

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, shards of things.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a mess.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a junk drawer of a factory at Boeing, but leadership was looking away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If you actually wanted to control quality, you got a trouble sure, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So 2011, Boeing and Airbus are in this rivalry to create this new plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: McNurney was very hot in the horny to create this plane,

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, wants to do it for something cheap.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's still trying very hard to do this and to maximize any profits, especially with shareholders.

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[SPEAKER_01]: McNurney just said, let's do something simple then.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not a plane, maybe not a plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's spit ball this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How on, instead of a fancy new plane, that we're spending a lot of money on, even though it's half the money we should be spending,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do a fuel-efficient engine inside.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll do a 737, try it in true, we know it, we love it, but we'll put a fuel-efficient engine on it to make it a 737 max, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like HBO max, but 737 max, people got pop for this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: People started getting very horny for this idea.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Airlines started buying the planes right off the shelves, either shelves, no plans are too big for shelves, but they started buying them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And shareholders, they liked what this was going.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In 2015, Jim McNerney retired a multi-millionaire with Boeing stocks soaring by all accounts he had

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[SPEAKER_00]: So people will look at him and he's like, they did it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Look, he did this, seven or seven max.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It stocks went up, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it was the seeds that planted all of this Boeing fuckery.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This culture that we now ascribed to Boeing because it fucked up so many people's lives.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It ended lives and it fucked up other lives.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Dennis Mullenberg came to see you after that, but nothing changed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it got worse.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Tiny things like shavings, pins can eventually bring down whole planes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And this was kind of educational for me as well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They talk about these shavings that they found from doing bad work with some of the parts of the plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't even want to describe it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I will sound like an idiot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But these shavings get into the plane because they're not cleaned up, because they're not

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because the tools and the machinery are not installed properly, they're shading.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's extra, extra access, there's sprinkles, and that goes into the plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And over and over as this plane is used, the shavings fuck around with the electrical wiring in the plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And while you don't see it, not the first flight, not the second flight, maybe not the tenth flight, maybe not the twentieth flight,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, it fox up the plane to the point that the plane can actually come crashing down.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Woof, terrifying, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Terrifying.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you said something about this, if you were a Boeing engineer or anyone who worked at Boeing, you could get chuffled around, you could try to, you would get punished so you couldn't do more speaking out and you couldn't make a living there, essentially.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you did, you had to, you know, be in a place that was disrespecting.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll say that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Then we see a montage, a video, a couple videos of Boeing employees themselves saying that they wouldn't be caught dead on a Boeing plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh, would you ride a 787?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And one guy's like, fuck no.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That one's like, are you fucking kidding me?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I work here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, like hell no one wish that on my worst enemy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's truly insane that they've got this footage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It is so chilling.

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[SPEAKER_01]: One engineer discovered that scrapped parts, like rotted parts, parts that in this video footage, there's a plain part, and it's got spray paint on it saying, bad, don't use for trash.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Was put back on an airplane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is what routinely happened.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They would take pieces trash, air trash.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And be like, you know what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's buff out this spray paint that says air trash.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's pop it right back on a plane.

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[SPEAKER_01]: to put on planes of people riding, playing garbage.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Finally, a corporate investigation is launched, but nobody's fired.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody even takes time off, nothing happens.

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[SPEAKER_01]: This will become a bit of a theme.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So Boeing is slowly being run into the ground with all of this cost optimization, corporate culture, and it's all wearing on John Barnett, but going to HR means you're a target that could be blacklisted from an entire industry and an industry that you love that you worked for decades in, and that's those are high risks, and that's a very tough place to be.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and yet Barnett goes to HR, whistle blows, writes letter to the VP of corporate ethics in Washington, and even still, nothing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He says in his taped testimony on the last day of his life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: is a plane going down the only thing that will stop this.

17:01.906 --> 17:03.888
[SPEAKER_01]: And the answer unfortunately is yes.

17:04.649 --> 17:07.572
[SPEAKER_01]: And on March 10th, 2019, one does.

17:08.453 --> 17:14.158
[SPEAKER_01]: ECHIopian Airlines Flight 302 goes down killing everybody, almost 200 people on board.

17:16.695 --> 17:20.257
[SPEAKER_01]: A controlled glitch overriding the system was discovered on the plane.

17:20.277 --> 17:22.498
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a programming glitch and flagged.

17:24.399 --> 17:27.781
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, that happened, it was flagged then.

17:28.121 --> 17:35.745
[SPEAKER_01]: But then many other people brought this to management's attention years before the plane crashed.

17:36.906 --> 17:37.887
[SPEAKER_01]: It's horrible.

17:38.167 --> 17:40.468
[SPEAKER_01]: It was totally preventable.

17:41.835 --> 17:53.103
[SPEAKER_01]: some of the engineers we meet in the beginning get emotional about this, how the company that they revered, that they loved, they put so much time and energy in could do this.

17:53.464 --> 17:59.248
[SPEAKER_01]: And the engineers in the segment are really like, they're so, they just, they really speak to you.

18:00.708 --> 18:04.271
[SPEAKER_01]: in such a way that you are so, you feel horrible for that.

18:04.291 --> 18:06.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you feel horrible for everyone in this documentary.

18:06.953 --> 18:16.361
[SPEAKER_01]: These engineers are, they're doing this thing, and they are being brave enough to come forward, that it's a very high-risk thing, as we will soon discuss.

18:17.302 --> 18:23.327
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a truly, it's a complete betrayal of everything that they worked for and are.

18:25.488 --> 18:36.236
[SPEAKER_01]: Families silently protest outside Boeing with huge photos of their, of the victims of their family members that died in that crash, and this is also a really emotional part of this documentary.

18:36.416 --> 18:38.517
[SPEAKER_01]: These big photos are so impactful.

18:38.877 --> 18:43.681
[SPEAKER_01]: These families standing outside being representatives in pain.

18:44.621 --> 18:45.122
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,

18:52.943 --> 18:55.384
[SPEAKER_01]: I look in there, can I find anyone who has a soul?

18:56.105 --> 18:59.747
[SPEAKER_01]: Anybody just doing the right thing up there in upper management?

19:00.587 --> 19:00.928
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone?

19:01.948 --> 19:02.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone?

19:02.308 --> 19:03.529
[SPEAKER_00]: You will learn.

19:04.550 --> 19:04.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone?

19:06.838 --> 19:27.182
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the answer is no, because bowling lawyers have a retort to the families who would like to be seen and compensated for the horrific loss that they've endured, but the lawyers say that they won't be compensated for the damages and the loss of their loved ones because it happened so fast.

19:27.582 --> 19:35.543
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually, they shouldn't be compensated for pain and loss because their death was nearly instantaneous.

19:35.863 --> 19:46.215
[SPEAKER_01]: which is the most deranged thing I've ever heard in my entire life, and how horrible to say that, to a grieving family member.

19:47.816 --> 19:50.359
[SPEAKER_01]: God, it was so, it was so hard to watch.

19:50.399 --> 19:52.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Part of it was like, why did I choose this to recap?

19:53.522 --> 19:56.864
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested to do, but Jesus Christ, damn.

19:57.744 --> 20:02.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Dennis Mullenberg, the CEO, is finally fired after these two crashes.

20:02.286 --> 20:07.349
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there is another 737 Max jet that crashed, which they don't even talk about in the documentary.

20:07.369 --> 20:21.516
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll just focus on this documentary, but again, there's all these other things that they don't really talk about, but you know what, emotionally for me, it's for the best.

20:22.803 --> 20:26.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Maunberg is replaced by a man named Dave Kellhoun.

20:27.665 --> 20:33.548
[SPEAKER_01]: Kellhoun is a chairman of the board for Boeing, and he seems like he's finally got on the right side of history.

20:34.288 --> 20:43.272
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying this shouldn't be happening, we have to look in words, we have to fix what is very broken in this company, it all, it's sensed correct, right?

20:44.492 --> 20:53.977
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Department of Justice is looking at Boeing, and they basically did doze that senior management didn't know what was going on, which is bullshit, of course.

20:55.157 --> 20:56.618
[SPEAKER_01]: So they say this.

20:56.638 --> 20:59.600
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, no one has held accountable yet.

21:01.091 --> 21:09.156
[SPEAKER_01]: or ever, but, you know, at this point, they say, Boeing, here you go, pay a fine, and you're under a probation for three years.

21:09.776 --> 21:19.062
[SPEAKER_01]: If anything weird happens in these three years, we're going to get back and prosecute you, and we're going back into criminal trials, accountability, et cetera.

21:20.963 --> 21:30.628
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, not the best outcome, sure, especially for the victims and their families and the engineers, but it's a plea deal made in heaven for Boeing.

21:31.969 --> 21:41.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I couldn't quite understand what was happening here legally and how that could take place, but that is in essence what happened.

21:43.617 --> 21:45.658
[SPEAKER_01]: The families, the victims, of course, are not happy with this.

21:45.838 --> 21:48.679
[SPEAKER_01]: They realize, though, that they have a mission.

21:49.079 --> 22:00.724
[SPEAKER_01]: They have three years to find out something that Boeing has done to violate their probation, so they can get them back in court and try them for their crimes.

22:01.165 --> 22:04.066
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, actually hold them accountable, right?

22:05.882 --> 22:07.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Unsurprisingly, I'm sure to you.

22:07.685 --> 22:11.472
[SPEAKER_01]: The families find lots of things that are going wrong with Boeing.

22:12.293 --> 22:18.143
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the most notable to me when watching this is the Post-It Note that's on,

22:19.584 --> 22:24.065
[SPEAKER_01]: a flight control that is a reminder to turn something off.

22:24.605 --> 22:25.905
[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't fuck shit up.

22:26.546 --> 22:27.906
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what we're dealing with here.

22:28.306 --> 22:29.666
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what we're dealing with.

22:30.287 --> 22:40.789
[SPEAKER_01]: So of course, all of these things that they find in the media and through their research insights them to take a scrutinizing glance at what's going on in the factories.

22:41.649 --> 22:43.090
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, we circle back to our net.

22:43.270 --> 22:45.710
[SPEAKER_01]: He's bullied, he's pay cut, and pretty much harassed,

22:49.931 --> 22:53.254
[SPEAKER_01]: So he stopped doing his job, which was quality control.

22:54.034 --> 22:56.316
[SPEAKER_01]: He ended up just retiring to make it stop.

22:56.776 --> 22:59.158
[SPEAKER_01]: But after he left, he knew that problems persisted.

22:59.258 --> 23:01.880
[SPEAKER_01]: So he thought, what can I do about it?

23:01.900 --> 23:03.401
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I do anything about it?

23:04.001 --> 23:06.183
[SPEAKER_01]: And he thought, you know, within the company, I can't.

23:06.743 --> 23:10.346
[SPEAKER_01]: But because I'm retired, I'm going to start speaking out publicly.

23:10.966 --> 23:15.289
[SPEAKER_01]: He gets into a network of whistleblowers and also connects with victims.

23:16.550 --> 23:26.595
[SPEAKER_01]: In May 2022, there's two years until the probationary period is over and Boeing can do whatever they want to do without any accountability and the victims are turning up the heat.

23:27.615 --> 23:30.036
[SPEAKER_01]: Boeing is assuring the public that they've changed their ways.

23:30.056 --> 23:36.219
[SPEAKER_01]: Dead Calhoun makes these new changes creates new tactical positions to make the company better, new safety positions.

23:36.499 --> 23:41.382
[SPEAKER_01]: He also creates the Speak Up program, making it easier for employees to speak up for bad behavior.

23:42.062 --> 23:45.805
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like that, Boeing 737 Maxes are able to fly again.

23:46.346 --> 23:47.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Who will fly in them?

23:47.627 --> 23:48.548
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly not me.

23:48.908 --> 23:53.592
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, at this point, I'm checking all the flights I have booked for the future to see if they're Boeing and guess what?

23:53.853 --> 23:55.054
[SPEAKER_01]: They are all Boeing.

23:55.614 --> 23:56.095
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I do?

23:56.135 --> 23:57.296
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I cancel my flights?

23:57.916 --> 23:59.538
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I consult the Delta app?

23:59.618 --> 24:01.740
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I arrange for another plane?

24:01.860 --> 24:02.661
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that possible?

24:02.761 --> 24:04.402
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like all planes are Boeing.

24:04.923 --> 24:07.105
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is really freaking the fuck out.

24:09.506 --> 24:15.249
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, Calhoun makes all of these master betray measures, and it all goes back to being chaos.

24:16.209 --> 24:26.014
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a point where 50,000 parts, 50,000 flight critical parts are not up to power, and you know, they're going into the system as records, they're not up to power.

24:27.012 --> 24:30.053
[SPEAKER_01]: These records are reported and deleted.

24:30.513 --> 24:35.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally deleted records about parts that are unsafe to use in planes that people ride in.

24:36.776 --> 24:41.838
[SPEAKER_01]: People speak up about this, and they are heavily retaliated against.

24:42.298 --> 24:43.198
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone is scared.

24:43.398 --> 24:50.021
[SPEAKER_01]: The speak up program means, hmm, I don't know, not throwing out scrap metal garbage and using it in a plane, that's for sure.

24:50.521 --> 24:52.682
[SPEAKER_01]: But it also doesn't mean speak up, does it?

24:54.048 --> 24:58.710
[SPEAKER_01]: And then one engineer's tires are even slashed, which is kind of next level.

24:58.730 --> 25:09.053
[SPEAKER_01]: Because now we're talking about, you know, a something very, this is the, this is the route of conspiracy, right?

25:09.413 --> 25:11.034
[SPEAKER_01]: That there is something very personal,

25:11.754 --> 25:19.436
[SPEAKER_01]: A personal backlash, all of these other backlash is against the engineers can be attributed to all kinds of corporate bullshit, even though we know that it's not.

25:19.476 --> 25:33.219
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, them not doing their jobs, them not being cooperative, whatever, all of this kind of veiled action to protect the company from what they were really trying to do, which is calling out bad things that were happening.

25:41.351 --> 25:43.232
[SPEAKER_01]: action that is illegal.

25:45.354 --> 25:47.055
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not behind the corporate veil anymore.

25:47.295 --> 25:47.875
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

25:48.896 --> 25:58.442
[SPEAKER_01]: These poor engineers, the tremendous guilt that they have for their parts in these tragedies must be crushing.

26:00.079 --> 26:11.403
[SPEAKER_01]: And John Mardett, he files a case against Boeing, a private case against Boeing, which is basically him saying that he was exposed to a hostile work environment.

26:13.044 --> 26:16.345
[SPEAKER_01]: He takes forever to get responses, media is all over this.

26:16.425 --> 26:22.408
[SPEAKER_01]: He's someone who, if he can't take action, you know, within Boeing, here's another way he can take it without.

26:22.448 --> 26:23.228
[SPEAKER_01]: He does other things too.

26:23.248 --> 26:25.009
[SPEAKER_01]: He works with victims, you know,

26:29.878 --> 26:36.386
[SPEAKER_01]: In this case, it's also different from other whistleblowing personal cases against companies, because companies will take your laptop, right?

26:36.426 --> 26:37.667
[SPEAKER_01]: They talk about this in the documentary.

26:38.028 --> 26:40.370
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough to have a case because they confiscate all your shit.

26:40.390 --> 26:41.472
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to document that.

26:41.972 --> 26:44.095
[SPEAKER_01]: But John Barnett, he's like, no, no, no, no, no.

26:44.195 --> 26:45.797
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not documenting every debate.

26:46.397 --> 26:48.460
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted all here when I could use it.

26:49.892 --> 26:57.582
[SPEAKER_01]: The deposition goes over this oxygen case with Barnet to where squibs, keyword, are not dispensing enough oxygen.

26:57.882 --> 27:04.010
[SPEAKER_01]: So 25% of the squibs are not giving oxygen to people that are wearing the oxygen masks.

27:04.290 --> 27:07.053
[SPEAKER_01]: The squibs are the little like top of the mask part.

27:08.282 --> 27:11.886
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine, like being in a plane and not getting enough oxygen.

27:11.906 --> 27:12.707
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something again.

27:12.747 --> 27:14.709
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like a little like bolt or something.

27:14.769 --> 27:18.734
[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally like a way for humans to live.

27:19.615 --> 27:23.739
[SPEAKER_01]: So fast forward and Boeing's three-year probation is about to expire in one month.

27:23.759 --> 27:25.541
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, nothing has changed.

27:26.302 --> 27:35.347
[SPEAKER_01]: And Nawaz, I think that's how you say your name, Connolly Ryan, the widow of Mick Ryan, goes to Washington to plead the victim's case, but nobody wants to listen.

27:36.368 --> 27:39.070
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, in this way, she is very frustrated.

27:39.170 --> 27:40.350
[SPEAKER_01]: It can feel very fucked.

27:40.851 --> 27:46.414
[SPEAKER_01]: January 5, 2024, two days until the Boeing's probation is about to expire, and Alaska 1282 takes off.

27:48.495 --> 27:52.540
[SPEAKER_01]: My heart is in my ass when victims describe their children doing things in their seats.

27:52.640 --> 27:54.002
[SPEAKER_01]: I know something's going to happen.

27:54.462 --> 28:04.735
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we're getting set up because we've got the story from Barnett, from his testimony about the oxygen masks and I'm like, fuck, oh boy, what are we in for here?

28:06.727 --> 28:11.649
[SPEAKER_01]: The passengers on this plane here are a big crash and the oxygen masks fall.

28:12.249 --> 28:16.971
[SPEAKER_01]: One dude sees to his side a door completely open.

28:17.892 --> 28:24.655
[SPEAKER_01]: A one-year-old child is screaming masks are dispensed, but oxygen is not flowing.

28:25.915 --> 28:29.378
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a video footage of this, and this is truly horrifying.

28:30.019 --> 28:34.483
[SPEAKER_01]: The oxygen is slowly depleting, and people are freaking out.

28:34.503 --> 28:42.950
[SPEAKER_01]: We see a ton of texts from people in this plane, and their holding families close, their holding hands, their praying.

28:42.970 --> 28:47.814
[SPEAKER_01]: It's truly what they believe is the last moment of their lives.

28:49.897 --> 28:55.698
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the plane with a fucking hole in it dives.

28:56.839 --> 28:58.199
[SPEAKER_01]: They dip past the clouds.

29:00.139 --> 29:04.641
[SPEAKER_01]: And by some miracle, they get control of the plane and they land.

29:05.181 --> 29:08.561
[SPEAKER_01]: This is two days before Boeing's probation is about to expire.

29:10.302 --> 29:10.442
[SPEAKER_01]: It's

29:12.017 --> 29:14.901
[SPEAKER_01]: I we see a headline it's gaping hole in aircraft.

29:15.422 --> 29:15.882
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fucked.

29:16.664 --> 29:26.778
[SPEAKER_01]: So FAA grounds all the 737's that Boeing has Boeing of course denies liability of course of course, but it's hard to argue with the fucking hole in a fucking plane.

29:28.517 --> 29:31.960
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, nobody died, thank God.

29:32.860 --> 29:34.061
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such an indicator.

29:34.561 --> 29:37.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, right down to the wire, how bad this company is.

29:39.225 --> 29:42.867
[SPEAKER_01]: The panel blowing off is traced back to a quality lapse in the factory.

29:43.448 --> 29:46.270
[SPEAKER_01]: The door team, there is a door team, interesting, right?

29:46.390 --> 29:50.893
[SPEAKER_01]: A whole door team has taken off the door plug to fix things, suppliers didn't get right.

29:51.394 --> 29:55.917
[SPEAKER_01]: They removed four retaining bolts to do that and didn't put them back.

29:57.150 --> 29:59.010
[SPEAKER_01]: So that plane starts to be flown, right?

29:59.110 --> 30:01.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Slowly, slowly, one flight after another.

30:01.551 --> 30:07.852
[SPEAKER_01]: Vibrations shift the door plug until eventually the door blows off on flight 1282.

30:07.912 --> 30:10.312
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll ask airlines, right?

30:10.972 --> 30:13.213
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, these things, we don't see them right away.

30:13.253 --> 30:14.573
[SPEAKER_01]: They happen gradually.

30:15.593 --> 30:19.654
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, I'm going to my delta app and I'm like, I've never going on a flight again.

30:19.694 --> 30:21.614
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm never flying again.

30:21.634 --> 30:22.854
[SPEAKER_01]: This is too horrifying.

30:22.874 --> 30:23.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't take it.

30:23.675 --> 30:25.275
[SPEAKER_01]: My body can't take in my spirit.

30:27.709 --> 30:32.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so Nyswaz, again, I'm not sure if I'm saying her name, right?

30:32.851 --> 30:39.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of Lee Ryan talks about this flight, Alaska, 1282, as kind of a miracle.

30:39.673 --> 30:47.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Her words not mine terrifying, but in a way, it's like this had to happen in order for the government to actually take notice.

30:48.916 --> 30:58.167
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we're back to March 8th, 2024, Burnett is saying that his doctor said he could have a heart attack and die if he didn't get out of that environment, the Boeing environment.

30:58.668 --> 31:06.598
[SPEAKER_01]: He's tired, he's taking his testimony all day and he tells his lawyers that he wants to resume his testimony against Boeing a little bit later, right?

31:07.899 --> 31:13.268
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes back to a hotel for the night and in the morning of Saturday, March 9th, nobody hears anything from him.

31:13.288 --> 31:22.122
[SPEAKER_01]: He's supposed to report back so they can finish up so the lawyers go to his hotel and the manager basically takes them back and says, I'm sorry for your loss.

31:22.575 --> 31:26.037
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how they found out that John Barnett had died.

31:26.357 --> 31:27.118
[SPEAKER_01]: He had passed away.

31:28.178 --> 31:32.481
[SPEAKER_01]: They learned that it actually happened in his car with a gunshot wound to his head.

31:32.501 --> 31:36.023
[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks it's suicide, of course.

31:37.603 --> 31:40.185
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, the reasons are murky.

31:40.205 --> 31:44.908
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in the middle of this big testimony, this big case that he was talking to his parents.

31:44.948 --> 31:48.049
[SPEAKER_01]: He looked forward to seeing them later to being comfy in his bed.

31:49.570 --> 32:03.620
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha, his poor parents, to participate in this documentary as a documentary and it takes a lot to do that and to see your child go through this four years on end must be even worse.

32:04.520 --> 32:07.762
[SPEAKER_01]: A fellow engineer says, quote, he was at the finish line.

32:08.203 --> 32:12.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Being found in a struck like that, it just didn't seem to us that it was the John that we knew.

32:13.847 --> 32:17.529
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, of course, there's a debate over whether Barnett took his own life or not,

32:20.360 --> 32:26.942
[SPEAKER_01]: obvious motivation for a corrupt company to somehow get him, right?

32:27.662 --> 32:31.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Get him as the technical term to end his life.

32:32.823 --> 32:34.483
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots and lots of discourse online.

32:34.663 --> 32:36.684
[SPEAKER_01]: We see a montage of social media.

32:36.704 --> 32:41.005
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, Fox News talking about it in a very conspiratorial way.

32:41.205 --> 32:43.245
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's very complicated.

32:50.447 --> 33:09.160
[SPEAKER_01]: but they're all saying that they're inspired, too, in this darkness, they realize that they had to finish what he started, which is actually a beautiful sentiment in this documentary and something that really is the thesis that you have to keep going, that you have to keep fighting for justice.

33:09.801 --> 33:10.962
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody has to do it.

33:11.842 --> 33:14.727
[SPEAKER_01]: it shouldn't be you, but sometimes it has to be you.

33:15.047 --> 33:15.548
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?

33:15.568 --> 33:26.985
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't send dozens of aviation whistleblowers have spoken up about this at this point because after, you know, after all that's said and done,

33:28.167 --> 33:38.294
[SPEAKER_01]: They drew a line on May 3rd, 2024 results of John Barnett's autopsy report are given to lawyers and family members and it's a tense moment.

33:39.315 --> 33:48.102
[SPEAKER_01]: The coroner's affirm that John Barnett's manner of death is suicide, but it was his gun that it was the trajectory made sense.

33:48.522 --> 33:49.603
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very sad.

33:51.024 --> 33:57.450
[SPEAKER_01]: and also confirms something a little bit more complicated than the conspiracy theories maybe point to.

33:57.470 --> 34:03.135
[SPEAKER_01]: I turned his head bar and had his laptop cell phone and notebook and in the notebook there is a suicide note.

34:04.016 --> 34:07.419
[SPEAKER_01]: The note says basically fuck Boeing and enough is enough.

34:07.639 --> 34:10.242
[SPEAKER_01]: I love my family Boeing can kiss my ass.

34:12.347 --> 34:17.752
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's almost easier to believe that Boeing would pull the trigger or orchestrate something.

34:18.372 --> 34:20.214
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to believe the conspiracy.

34:20.294 --> 34:26.559
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we believe in conspiracy because we've talked about this in a couple episodes in different ways around different conspiracyes.

34:27.420 --> 34:35.104
[SPEAKER_01]: We want answers, we want simple answers, want answers that feel like they are often times beyond our control.

34:35.144 --> 34:37.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of things of course are beyond our control.

34:37.745 --> 34:52.432
[SPEAKER_01]: But the fact is that this company's psychologically got into this man's head, his spirit, this man that had been working there for 30 years, enough to take his own life is so much more insidious and disturbing.

34:53.532 --> 35:01.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So finally, with the probation period over and a massive failure, Dave Kellyung goes to Washington to get grilled about the crashes and hearing.

35:01.859 --> 35:05.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Many families are there, the Barnets are there, it is very hard to watch.

35:06.539 --> 35:11.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Senators kind of grill him, Calhoun blames operating in manufacturing systems, Boeing blames.

35:11.924 --> 35:17.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much everyone, Calhoun Boeing, except they're on asses, but nobody is buying it.

35:17.490 --> 35:21.513
[SPEAKER_01]: The Senators, again, I wish they'd gone harder for sure, but they're getting at him.

35:21.534 --> 35:22.735
[SPEAKER_01]: They're talking about his salary.

35:23.175 --> 35:25.878
[SPEAKER_01]: Calhoun is looking like Sean Pan and one battle after another.

35:26.118 --> 35:29.601
[SPEAKER_01]: Just licking his lips and sweating his ass off.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we get, you know, a little bit of competence, a little bit of, hey, you did this, your company did this, what are you going to do about it?

35:41.109 --> 35:44.912
[SPEAKER_01]: The documentary concludes not with any positivity.

35:44.932 --> 35:50.515
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, usually you get a little bit of levity at the end of these things, not here, not now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: People are dead and the men who ran this company for so many years are some of the richest men in the world.

35:58.178 --> 36:00.380
[SPEAKER_01]: The end plate, and there are many end plates.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about how much Boeing CEOs have received in compensation and retirement.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Spoiler, it's a fucking fuck ton of money.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As a March 26 Boeing commercial airplanes division hasn't turned a profit since 2018.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It lost $40 billion, not doing well over there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Boeing settled John Barnett's whistleblower lawsuit for an undisclosed amount.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we get a little bit of levity, a little bit of something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There is a second lawsuit for wrongful death, which is pending.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And in November 2025, the Department of Justice dropped the criminal case against Boeing for $737 Mac's crashes, finding it $1.1 billion and a commitment to improving safety quality and compliance.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what people do with vague commitments to improvement in this company?

36:47.890 --> 36:48.491
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The victims, again, have to keep fighting and they do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Boeing declined to be in this documentary for obvious reasons, but they did surprisingly leave a statement, and we get kind of two pieces of the statement.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's long and full of words, and I'm sure the lawyers deliberately engineered it to be very boring, so that it should not be shown or read or whatever in this documentary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get a little bit of it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It says allegations have been widely reported somewhere on founded claims while others are issues Boeing has thoroughly addressed or continues to improve upon.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They have a new CEO, new values and behaviors that strengthen their culture.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now we all know what that means, absolutely nothing.